Wednesday, 10/24/07

that they would know more than the teacher

Just a good quote from Dan Kimball, They Like Jesus but not the church
The reason I am writing this book and the reason I continue to go out of my way to meet, befriend, hang out with, and talk with those who like Jesus but not the church is because I so desire for others to experience the full Jesus, not just the good teacher or the friend but also the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings and the Savior who changes lives.

posted by (Bill) at 6:02 pm Wednesday, 10/24/07

Comments

ruben wrote:

I keep hearing this "don't like the church" thing. I just wondering what church they're talking about. I've been on six church boards in as many denominations. It's obvious to me that if you get any group of people together for any length of time to do whatever...there's going to be trouble. Look at the 1st century church that everone wants to emulate. They invented deacons because people accused the "church" of playing favorites.
I think this "don't like the church" is a cop out for not living in committed relationships to each other. Even when we're "offended" by what someone says or does or says they do. When you "don't like the church" as a christian you're saying you don't like yourself. So, what's the answer? Stay put, stay together. Use forgiveness as a weapon against the division Satan so longs for. Take responsibility your own attitudes and actions. "The church" is not going away. The only way group of people can change is if each individual changes. "The body is held together by what each joint supplies" Be the glucosamine of the Body, the church.

posted by ruben on Wednesday, 10/24/07, 10:37 pm

Bill wrote:

To be clear, Ruben, Dan Kimball is talking about people who are not Christians. Secular people who like the popular version of Jesus, but don't acknowledge that he is Lord, Savior, probably not God. His book is about non-Christians appreciation for Jesus but distaste for the church.

I agree that in the end, we Christians need to find a way to stay together as imperfect people in imperfect groups and remain the body of Christ.

posted by Bill on Wednesday, 10/24/07, 11:46 pm

ruben wrote:

I still say it's a cop out for the unbeliever also. I've given my bible to quite few folks and told them to forget what they've seen or heard from others. I told them to read it for five minutes everyday for a week. If God did not reveal Himself to them then throw the bible away. Two things would happen, they become believers or they would not have done it. Sounds hokey but it sure got people's attention. I gotta start buy some bibles.
Blaming the church is not going to cut it as an excuse when people stand before they're own conscience let alone before God.
When confronted with the hypocrisy of the church, I have to ask the unbeliever if they are living out their beliefs. Everyone fails in this aspect of our own quest for "righteousness".

posted by ruben on Thursday, 10/25/07, 12:11 am

Bill wrote:

Blaming the church is not going to cut it as an excuse when people stand before they're own conscience.
While this may be true, Ruben, Dan Kimball isn't suggesting anyone is blaming the church. He is describing people who like Jesus, Bono, the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther King and Gandhi all pretty much at the same level. They don't blame the church for anything. They just don't like it.

According to his interviews they think it is a judgmental, negative, woman oppressing, homophobic, religious power structure with a political agenda. They don't blame the church for anything. They just don't like it, and they have no desire to be a part of it. In fact, they believe that becoming a Christian would make them an ethically worse person because of those things.

In spite of that, they like Jesus - or their somewhat limited understanding of Jesus. So, according to those findings, they would have no trouble standing before their conscience. In fact, they would be thankful that they haven't morally declined by joining a church.

posted by Bill on Thursday, 10/25/07, 10:43 am

William wrote:

I agree with both of you. Many could accept an anthropomorphized Jesus who agrees with what they already believe. They are less comfortable with one who asks to be their Lord and change their lives... and maybe even their opinions. After all, their opinions are right, right? I know mine all were before I became a Christian.

I didn't become a Christian in the laboratory of debate over the issues the Church held dear. I thought most of those issues silly or bigoted. (How post-modern of me, before there was post-modern)

I became a Christian in the context of people who lived a relationship of loving and caring with one another and with the world (Oooh, I think that's called the church -though not the institutional one), in SPITE of their silly ideas. AFTER I became a Christian, the Scriptures came alive for me and I began to see the world through new eyes. Many of the ideas I thought silly began to make sense. SOME of my ideas changed. Other of my opinions seemed more in line with Biblical ideals than the ones held by my friends.

As to using the church as an excuse to avoid becoming a Christian, I met the 91 year old retired assistant pastor of our church in Pasadena once in Albertsons. He was talking to a former attendee who hadn't been in church for a long while. The former attendee complained that the church was full of hypoctrits. Withour missing a beat, my friend replied, "You are absolutely right, but I can't help noticing that there are a lot of hypocrits in Albertsons and you are still coming here!"

posted by William on Thursday, 10/25/07, 12:16 pm

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